What did I miss?

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GzhnQUn9

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I've been away from the RoR scene for some years (and was never really much a part of it even back then), so I find the recent (?) purge of content to be somewhat strange. The gist of it seems to be complaints about using other people's SketchUp models without permission, which I can understand; however, the impression I'm getting is that the program itself is effectively "persona non grata" now.

Again, having been away for years, I really expected to come back to a vastly improved workflow for newbies such as myself. Instead, it appears that creating a vehicle from scratch has become even more complex (not necessarily a bad thing), the "approved" methods curtailed (frankly a bit scary), and little to no support for non-Windows utilities (still frustrating).

Perhaps I'm just looking in the wrong places. I would be glad to hear alternative explanations. Thanks.
 

Zentro

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What purge of content are you referring to? And could you further elaborate "persona non grata"?

Also, all content creation tools should be cross-platform in regards to Blender plugins (ulteq's or hagderviese's) and project nodeSnap (afaik, currently requires you to compile on your own if non-Windows but shouldn't really be an issue).
 
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GzhnQUn9

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I don't know whether to interpret your ignorance of the issues as a genuine lack of knowledge or as an attempt to cover something up. If I, a mere outsider returning after years away, can spot the purge in just a few searches, I don't see how you can honestly speak as if it's some mystery. Moreover, that you ask me to define so simple and widespread a term as persona non grata, this really sounds like you're being deliberately obtuse (which is a foul debate tactic used for bogging down one's opponent with minutiae so that the issue being debated never actually gets discussed). Lastly, that you honestly hold a belief that compiling from source is really so commonplace a thing in the non-Windows community that it "shouldn't be an issue", speaks of a mindset somewhat out of joint with the masses. The only things you've mentioned that I do find helpful are the Blender plugins (but again, much like the issue with compiling, Blender is not something that everyday folks just pick up and use) and nodeSnap (which I don't think I've heard of before). Now, for all I know, there was some uprising or other paradigm shift within the RoR community and/or moderation, and the reason for you engaging in the infuriating practice of answering a question with a question is because I have inadvertently uncovered an old wound that is verboten to discuss. If that's the case, then I'll just have to chalk it up to peculiarities such as the creator's ban on weapons in RoR, and find my own way instead. Thanks.
 

Zentro

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There hasn't been a purge of content. Period. Wayback Machine proves this and the archives still contains over 4,082 mods that span from the creation of the first repository till ~2015. Moreover, your whole "paradigm shift" is pure fantasy. I'm not sure how to help you further since you seem hellbent on being toxic.
 

Xploder98

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If I may interject, I'd like to ask some questions.

First: Why such hostility to just three sentences, as an introductory step to perhaps being of assistance to you, if I may ask? One would assume based on your initial post that you sought help, but it seems a debate was more in order. If anything, your apparent refusal to answer the two questions asked seems a little suspect. Why would you yourself bog down the conversation with minutiae, and not deign to overlook such minor things as Zentro's unfamiliarity with a derived Latin phrase you used? I'd like to note that persona non grata is not a particularly vernacular term, so I wouldn't be surprised if more than a few Internet users would find it unfamiliar. In your apparent fury, you seemed to ignore the issues at hand yourself.

Also, could you further elaborate on some other things you said? You mentioned several times (using different expressions) that you were "a mere outsider returning after years away". If so, how long ago was it, if you still recall? In addition, what asserted "purge" do you refer to? If you could be more specific in describing the search terms used to come to that conclusion, it would be easier to assess the situation more concretely. It must be noted that this current forum has only been used since 2018. Thus, some older content would understandably be missing.

Could you please define "non-Windows", as well? There are so many ways to interpret that phrase that it's a bit too ambiguous to be useful in diagnosing a problem.

In addition, what do you mean by "the infuriating practice of answering a question with a question"? No question was posed in the original post, and the questions were only asked in what seems to be an attempt to simply gain some clarification.

As to your assertion that SketchUp is itself a de facto banned 3D modeling program, I find no evidence to back that claim. If I am not mistaken, there exists no policy to prevent one from modeling an object in SketchUp and exporting it such that it may be used in the game. There have been previous examples of content created in SketchUp that did not pose an issue. The fact remains, however, that Blender is an accepted industry standard for 3D modeling software. Therefore, it might follow that one ought not be surprised when most 3D modeling support is provided for Blender.

This abrupt outburst of combativeness does not seem like the response an honest inquiry and desire to obtain answers would produce. Rather, it may well betray a pre-existing animosity towards this user.

Please, abandon this outrage if you would so grace us, and let there be conversation and exchange of ideas toward the solution of a problem.
 
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GzhnQUn9

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Xploder98,

You can jump on the bandwagon of accusing me of initiating the hostilities by not answering Zentro's questions, but the evidence is plain (unless he or another administrator chooses to redact it) that the tone was first set by him when he answered a perfectly simple question with a question. In short, I don't cater to those who would subvert legitimate inquiry by pretending to not understand common parlance.

Note also, that I see you using similar methods, such as your rather ham-handed attempt to mimic my turns of phrase and feed them back to me (presumably thinking that using such ridicule would draw forum-goers' attention from the points I was making). Your interest in mere clarification and orderly discussion is a veil nigh transparent.

As to your other points, most seem deliberately misleading, which means I will not be delving into this rabbit hole you've set up to divert the discussion. Instead, I will stay on track with my original query, by pointing out again that the SketchUp-to-RoR workflow was a common sight a decade ago, but has practically vanished since the crackdown on using models without permission. (My original post even asked if I was looking in the wrong places, but the response was instantly evasive, as I've already described.)
 

Austin

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I've been away from the RoR scene for some years

Don't recognize the name, and I've been around the block here once or twice.

I find the recent (?) purge of content to be somewhat strange.

Not a purge so much as forums coming and going and content being lost during ownership changes and other things that have happened. I'm guessing you were here before Beam.NG became a thing.

But a lot of the former content can be found:

The gist of it seems to be complaints about using other people's SketchUp models without permission, which I can understand; however,

'Stolen' (using other's models without permission) content has been a rule/problem long before the current staff took over.

the impression I'm getting is that the program itself is effectively "persona non grata" now.

Not at all, It's just not that great of a program to use for game modeling, and 95% of what is produced with it is just mesh slaps from the sketchup warehouse, not original content from the creator.

I really expected to come back to a vastly improved workflow for newbies such as myself. Instead, it appears that creating a vehicle from scratch has become even more complex (not necessarily a bad thing), the "approved" methods curtailed (frankly a bit scary)

There have been almost zero new modders in the last several years, if no one wants the information, no one is going to spend time making documentation like that. It's not really more complex at all, the basics are all still the same, there are just more optional features that can be used now.

little to no support for non-Windows utilities (still frustrating).

Little to no use for non-Windows utilities.

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I don't know whether to interpret your ignorance of the issues as a genuine lack of knowledge or as an attempt to cover something up.

No cover-up, everything is pretty public around here.

If I, a mere outsider returning after years away, can spot the purge in just a few searches, I don't see how you can honestly speak as if it's some mystery.

What searches? I can find almost anything I want back from 2005 on.

Moreover, that you ask me to define so simple and widespread a term as persona non grata, this really sounds like you're being deliberately obtuse (which is a foul debate tactic used for bogging down one's opponent with minutiae so that the issue being debated never actually gets discussed).

Honestly had to google it, never heard of it before.
 

corvette81

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From memory the last "content purge" was in like 2010 or something when tdev and whoever else was around introduced the content rules. There has been issues more recently with server hosts for old archived forums and what not but that is in no way a purge and most of said content from old archived sources is available still anyway.


So my question is @QzhnQUn9 when did you last play RoR and what version if you can remember were you using?(obviously not expecting exact answers)
 

Blue_Pads

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I geuss TL;DR :multple domains and owner transfers .having reduced community interest .Lack of content (that are hosted on archives). Make it seem like we purged content on a voluntarily level. Seem reasonable to someone with minimal involvement over the years to create a a theory such as "purging content "
 
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GzhnQUn9

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Thanks to the last few posters for clarifying the issue.

Yes, I was around prior to the BeamNG split, but at the time was generally unable to use RoR -- though I can't recall whether that was because compiling on a GNU/Linux system was still new to me, or what. I don't remember my username, either, but I hadn't participated all that much anyway. I do remember being confused by the split, not knowing which project would determine the future of the standard, as both appeared to be "official" in one way or another.

I had no idea that RoR (or at least its forum) had changed hands so many times, though. Doing a drive-by every few years to see if the program had an easy-to-install Linux version, it did surprise me that the site kept taking on a different look, but I just figured it was the natural evolution as new Internet options became available.

Apparently, somewhere along the way SketchUp ceased being the go-to tool for newbies -- or, again, it merely became frowned upon due to the abuse of other authors' models. Not actually participating in the forums, though, I did not notice the shift away from that program to whatever people are now using. Perhaps today's newbies are indeed versed in Blender, and I'm merely lagging behind the times. Looking at screenshots of nodeSnap, though, it does remind me of a program used way back when -- perhaps the same one -- that was recommended for RoR, but which I found to be difficult to use.

As for precisely when changes in content, tools, leadership, and so on had taken place, or whether there was a graduated shift that merely shocked me, I can only estimate my time here as having been a decade ago. RoR is one of those concepts that sounded revolutionary at the time, and so I kept it in the back of my mind, assuming that it could only get better and would take its place as the standard. I hope that it is (or still will be), but I would also like to be told frankly if better practices have supplanted it. Thanks.

P.S.: Maybe part of my confusion is that the bulk of old content does not function with the new versions of RoR. There doesn't have to be malign intent behind it per se, but the effect can be the same as a content purge, invalidating hundreds (thousands?) of past contributions from people who may have since moved on and are not likely to update their content to the new standard. That creates an awfully fine line between "technology improvement" and "censorship weapon".

P.P.S.: My current version of RoR is the latest, I believe. Installed via Lutris on GNU/Linux. The only change is that I swapped the obsolete package Lutris would have downloaded with the up-to-date package I got from the RoR site.
 
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Xploder98

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If I may, I'd just like to say that nodeSnap, as far as I recall, is an updated version of the old Editorizer. I believe that is the older program that you refer to. Were you yourself interested in trying to make content for the game? I think the community could offer some assistance, but I will kindly defer to staff on anything further.
 

not player

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P.S.: Maybe part of my confusion is that the bulk of old content does not function with the new versions of RoR. There doesn't have to be malign intent behind it per se, but the effect can be the same as a content purge, invalidating hundreds (thousands?) of past contributions from people who may have since moved on and are not likely to update their content to the new standard. That creates an awfully fine line between "technology improvement" and "censorship weapon".
ye because after years and years you most likely aren't come back to an old mod you made which is most likely lost to time just to update the mod to new standards, plus you can just use older versions of RoR to use old mods
 
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GzhnQUn9

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Regarding backward compatibility, I tried perhaps half a dozen vehicles, and struck out on most.

As for using older versions of RoR to compensate, it seems likely that would be hampered by different mods functioning at different times over the development of the program.

Is it against the rules for one to update another poster's content in their stead?
 
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GzhnQUn9

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If I may, I'd just like to say that nodeSnap, as far as I recall, is an updated version of the old Editorizer. I believe that is the older program that you refer to. Were you yourself interested in trying to make content for the game? I think the community could offer some assistance, but I will kindly defer to staff on anything further.
I have a few vehicles I'd like to see done, though to do them myself would take an investment of brainpower I'm not sure I still possess! I'd be just as happy collaborating, or even commissioning. Anything I accomplish would be released freely here, anyway, as I have no reason to hoard it. One of the projects, however, is kind of a mad science experiment, something I'd like to attempt in RoR and release only if it proves to be viable for a real-life design.
 
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